|
Post by mentoneman on Aug 20, 2016 20:14:13 GMT -5
New addition to the family today! Right under the THR amp Offscreen/not hooked up: Rolls switcher, Boss CE-300 Super Chorus, Boss VF-1 (NICE chorus there as well!), blackface Rocktron Intellifex, and a Gallien-Krueger 2000PCL preamp (I like Rush, can you tell? ) Nice Ryan!! you made some outstanding choruses in the pcm80 but nothing beats the real deal! do you have any new clips we could hear? btw the new yamaha 2 ch head is really cool too.
|
|
|
Post by analogkid85 on Aug 21, 2016 12:49:57 GMT -5
Nice Ryan!! you made some outstanding choruses in the pcm80 but nothing beats the real deal! do you have any new clips we could hear? btw the new yamaha 2 ch head is really cool too. Thanks Pat! By the way, I played this thing pretty much ALL DAY yesterday, and I also took the time to create some new PCM80 emulations of this too. Made some "course corrections" and they're sounding much truer to the real thing now The only big "mystery" to unravel now is how exactly to get that "always-on flanging" sound--you always hear some of that, even in the Mode 2/Chorus sound, and it's especially noticeable with dirt. It might not actually be flanging though, but whatever it is, it's very similar to the "hyper-comb filtered" sound you get positive-phase flangers (like the "jet swoosh" of an MXR Flanger). Italo has said before that he thinks there are some "unquantized microdelays" in this unit, and I if that's true, I think that's what's causing this. I also believe that, whatever this is, it's probably what makes the "Delay Panning" preset work so well. If both delays were sweeping the same way, this would be easier to figure out, but they're not--unless your doing the TRS/quad-output thing (which I haven't touched yet, for lack of the right cables), each chorus unit is true stereo, where one side sweeps up and the other sweeps down (and as long as SWEEP SYNC is turned off)...so it's not so easy to tell exactly how the Haas effect is happening here, but I have some tests I can do and hopefully figure out how it's done This thing sounds really great at longer delay times! I've found out that those are the sounds I'm really after in this unit. There's some "magic" that happens when you get two choruses running together that are both in the longer delay time range. Believe it or not, the biggest surprise when I first plugged it in was just how familiar it felt! It was like that scene in Lex gets on the computer in Jurassic Park ("This is a UNIX system--I know this! ) All that experimenting I did in the Glide>Hall algorithm was good ear training for this, and it all felt like home. I'd been working on emulating this for 2 years already, and I was kind of surprised at how many things I did get right about it. Every clip that I had heard of this over the years--whether it was on an album, or in a demo--sort of got synthesized into a "picture" I had in my head of how it sounded, and I wasn't as far off the mark as I thought I'd be. For me, the odd side-effect of finally getting the 1210 is what I'd call the "death of analog exceptionalism"--after getting to hear this up-close, with the same gear I had used to tweak digital emulations of for so long, I was shocked at just how similar this actually sounds to digital gear. There are differences, to be sure--but after trying the 1210, the PCM80, and the Boss VF-1 (on the Dimension D "emulation"--which actually sounds more like a TC!) one after the other...the myth has been shattered...there ARE still differences, for sure, but they're not as great as you might think, and I believe now that with some even more advanced digital tech, like the 2U Eventides, I'd be able to make even better emulations of that could nail the things a Lexicon have a hard time doing (extra microdelay lines, a slightly different midrange, and the slight "softness" of the analog audio). I kind of got a taste for this a few months back when I tried my DC-2 again for the first time in 2 years, and I remember thinking "well that's the DC-2--not the highest quality components...I'll bet the 1210 will be a different story"...nope! In fact, I think the 1210 gets even closer to the digital I already have, since its frequency response is so much wider than the DC-2. In short, the 1210 is everything I hoped it would be, but it's also affirmed my faith in digital chorus too Win-win. I'm going to try to make some demos soon, but I want to get a good setup for the digital stuff with a mixer--it'd be neat to do some comparing between all 3 of these units I mentioned (and maybe the DC-2 too, just for fun). They all still sound different, but I think I will make the case for what could be viable back-ups or "stand-ins" for a 1210-type sound, and I believe there's a lot more gear out there that can do this well too. About the Yamaha amps--I really want the big one now too! I absolutely love the Marshall and Fender models in these, and I use them every day. I got this amp just a few months before I got the PCM80, and I love it just as much as the day I got it I can only imagine the new one will be that much better.
|
|
|
Post by t0aj15 on Aug 22, 2016 9:00:34 GMT -5
I was really considering one of the Yamaha 100 watt 2 channel heads until I read several reviews that complained about there not being enough power. You would think that with two 100 watt rated outputs there would be more then enough, but several reviews I've read say otherwise. I do however like the 5 voices (although limited) it does have. If it had the kind of power my Quilter amps have I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Both my Quilter Tone Block 200 and Pro Block 200 have true horsepower that I've never seen in any other SS guitar amps.
|
|
|
Post by mentoneman on Aug 23, 2016 9:34:13 GMT -5
I was really considering one of the Yamaha 100 watt 2 channel heads until I read several reviews that complained about there not being enough power. You would think that with two 100 watt rated outputs there would be more then enough, but several reviews I've read say otherwise. I do however like the 5 voices (although limited) it does have. If it had the kind of power my Quilter amps have I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Both my Quilter Tone Block 200 and Pro Block 200 have true horsepower that I've never seen in any other SS guitar amps. between yamaha quilter and roland there are some really cool developments in the amp realm happening i didnt test the yamaha for volume but the lead tones were really sweet
|
|
|
Post by mentoneman on Aug 23, 2016 9:40:58 GMT -5
Nice Ryan!! you made some outstanding choruses in the pcm80 but nothing beats the real deal! do you have any new clips we could hear? btw the new yamaha 2 ch head is really cool too. Thanks Pat! By the way, I played this thing pretty much ALL DAY yesterday, and I also took the time to create some new PCM80 emulations of this too. Made some "course corrections" and they're sounding much truer to the real thing now The only big "mystery" to unravel now is how exactly to get that "always-on flanging" sound--you always hear some of that, even in the Mode 2/Chorus sound, and it's especially noticeable with dirt. It might not actually be flanging though, but whatever it is, it's very similar to the "hyper-comb filtered" sound you get positive-phase flangers (like the "jet swoosh" of an MXR Flanger). Italo has said before that he thinks there are some "unquantized microdelays" in this unit, and I if that's true, I think that's what's causing this. I also believe that, whatever this is, it's probably what makes the "Delay Panning" preset work so well. If both delays were sweeping the same way, this would be easier to figure out, but they're not--unless your doing the TRS/quad-output thing (which I haven't touched yet, for lack of the right cables), each chorus unit is true stereo, where one side sweeps up and the other sweeps down (and as long as SWEEP SYNC is turned off)...so it's not so easy to tell exactly how the Haas effect is happening here, but I have some tests I can do and hopefully figure out how it's done This thing sounds really great at longer delay times! I've found out that those are the sounds I'm really after in this unit. There's some "magic" that happens when you get two choruses running together that are both in the longer delay time range. Believe it or not, the biggest surprise when I first plugged it in was just how familiar it felt! It was like that scene in Lex gets on the computer in Jurassic Park ("This is a UNIX system--I know this! ) All that experimenting I did in the Glide>Hall algorithm was good ear training for this, and it all felt like home. I'd been working on emulating this for 2 years already, and I was kind of surprised at how many things I did get right about it. Every clip that I had heard of this over the years--whether it was on an album, or in a demo--sort of got synthesized into a "picture" I had in my head of how it sounded, and I wasn't as far off the mark as I thought I'd be. For me, the odd side-effect of finally getting the 1210 is what I'd call the "death of analog exceptionalism"--after getting to hear this up-close, with the same gear I had used to tweak digital emulations of for so long, I was shocked at just how similar this actually sounds to digital gear. There are differences, to be sure--but after trying the 1210, the PCM80, and the Boss VF-1 (on the Dimension D "emulation"--which actually sounds more like a TC!) one after the other...the myth has been shattered...there ARE still differences, for sure, but they're not as great as you might think, and I believe now that with some even more advanced digital tech, like the 2U Eventides, I'd be able to make even better emulations of that could nail the things a Lexicon have a hard time doing (extra microdelay lines, a slightly different midrange, and the slight "softness" of the analog audio). I kind of got a taste for this a few months back when I tried my DC-2 again for the first time in 2 years, and I remember thinking "well that's the DC-2--not the highest quality components...I'll bet the 1210 will be a different story"...nope! In fact, I think the 1210 gets even closer to the digital I already have, since its frequency response is so much wider than the DC-2. In short, the 1210 is everything I hoped it would be, but it's also affirmed my faith in digital chorus too Win-win. I'm going to try to make some demos soon, but I want to get a good setup for the digital stuff with a mixer--it'd be neat to do some comparing between all 3 of these units I mentioned (and maybe the DC-2 too, just for fun). They all still sound different, but I think I will make the case for what could be viable back-ups or "stand-ins" for a 1210-type sound, and I believe there's a lot more gear out there that can do this well too. About the Yamaha amps--I really want the big one now too! I absolutely love the Marshall and Fender models in these, and I use them every day. I got this amp just a few months before I got the PCM80, and I love it just as much as the day I got it I can only imagine the new one will be that much better. the 1210 is really sweet in the high end and like the 2290 really keeps your dry tone fat and clear great one trick pony and i wish i had two-one fir spacial expand and the second for chorus! i'd love to hear what you can do with the vf-1 and korg too.
|
|
|
Post by Monaco on Aug 24, 2016 7:00:27 GMT -5
Please, if you continue conversation about the TC 1210, this needs to have it's own thread! So interesting to read about.. Monaco Nice Ryan!! you made some outstanding choruses in the pcm80 but nothing beats the real deal! do you have any new clips we could hear? btw the new yamaha 2 ch head is really cool too. Thanks Pat! By the way, I played this thing pretty much ALL DAY yesterday, and I also took the time to create some new PCM80 emulations of this too. Made some "course corrections" and they're sounding much truer to the real thing now The only big "mystery" to unravel now is how exactly to get that "always-on flanging" sound--you always hear some of that, even in the Mode 2/Chorus sound, and it's especially noticeable with dirt. It might not actually be flanging though, but whatever it is, it's very similar to the "hyper-comb filtered" sound you get positive-phase flangers (like the "jet swoosh" of an MXR Flanger). Italo has said before that he thinks there are some "unquantized microdelays" in this unit, and I if that's true, I think that's what's causing this. I also believe that, whatever this is, it's probably what makes the "Delay Panning" preset work so well. If both delays were sweeping the same way, this would be easier to figure out, but they're not--unless your doing the TRS/quad-output thing (which I haven't touched yet, for lack of the right cables), each chorus unit is true stereo, where one side sweeps up and the other sweeps down (and as long as SWEEP SYNC is turned off)...so it's not so easy to tell exactly how the Haas effect is happening here, but I have some tests I can do and hopefully figure out how it's done This thing sounds really great at longer delay times! I've found out that those are the sounds I'm really after in this unit. There's some "magic" that happens when you get two choruses running together that are both in the longer delay time range. Believe it or not, the biggest surprise when I first plugged it in was just how familiar it felt! It was like that scene in Lex gets on the computer in Jurassic Park ("This is a UNIX system--I know this! ) All that experimenting I did in the Glide>Hall algorithm was good ear training for this, and it all felt like home. I'd been working on emulating this for 2 years already, and I was kind of surprised at how many things I did get right about it. Every clip that I had heard of this over the years--whether it was on an album, or in a demo--sort of got synthesized into a "picture" I had in my head of how it sounded, and I wasn't as far off the mark as I thought I'd be. For me, the odd side-effect of finally getting the 1210 is what I'd call the "death of analog exceptionalism"--after getting to hear this up-close, with the same gear I had used to tweak digital emulations of for so long, I was shocked at just how similar this actually sounds to digital gear. There are differences, to be sure--but after trying the 1210, the PCM80, and the Boss VF-1 (on the Dimension D "emulation"--which actually sounds more like a TC!) one after the other...the myth has been shattered...there ARE still differences, for sure, but they're not as great as you might think, and I believe now that with some even more advanced digital tech, like the 2U Eventides, I'd be able to make even better emulations of that could nail the things a Lexicon have a hard time doing (extra microdelay lines, a slightly different midrange, and the slight "softness" of the analog audio). I kind of got a taste for this a few months back when I tried my DC-2 again for the first time in 2 years, and I remember thinking "well that's the DC-2--not the highest quality components...I'll bet the 1210 will be a different story"...nope! In fact, I think the 1210 gets even closer to the digital I already have, since its frequency response is so much wider than the DC-2. In short, the 1210 is everything I hoped it would be, but it's also affirmed my faith in digital chorus too Win-win. I'm going to try to make some demos soon, but I want to get a good setup for the digital stuff with a mixer--it'd be neat to do some comparing between all 3 of these units I mentioned (and maybe the DC-2 too, just for fun). They all still sound different, but I think I will make the case for what could be viable back-ups or "stand-ins" for a 1210-type sound, and I believe there's a lot more gear out there that can do this well too. About the Yamaha amps--I really want the big one now too! I absolutely love the Marshall and Fender models in these, and I use them every day. I got this amp just a few months before I got the PCM80, and I love it just as much as the day I got it I can only imagine the new one will be that much better.
|
|
oaj73
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by oaj73 on Aug 24, 2016 9:23:48 GMT -5
Love my 1210.
|
|
oaj73
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by oaj73 on Aug 24, 2016 9:27:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by thewizard on Aug 24, 2016 9:32:38 GMT -5
I think this proves that sound is a pretty subject thing, I have never heard a digital chorus that sound as good as a 1210.
|
|
|
Post by mentoneman on Aug 25, 2016 22:24:24 GMT -5
big picture is dropping $1k on a 1210, for me, is not a priority. Love the unit and very familiar with the sound, and if it came down to reasonable prices id get one.
But knowing how it and a tsc sound in person in a big rack, i am really good with my gear and the chorus i get with and don't feel lacking.
|
|
oaj73
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by oaj73 on Aug 26, 2016 10:04:46 GMT -5
Well without money nothings fun, thats life I guess
|
|
|
Post by mentoneman on Aug 28, 2016 11:01:51 GMT -5
Well without money nothings fun, thats life I guess you have a really great looking system btw! i have always been into lean mean rigs aka girly racks for a practical transportable reason. so effects that can do many things well like pcm 80 and korg dl8000r and gforce make me happy. dedicated pieces like 1210 are sonically epic but become one trick ponies that take up space and weight in a live rig. chances are i will go live again and want to be able to take my rig where i play quick and easy. i start weighing the cost of a dedicated tc chorus effect and it becomes more of an a ear candy piece playing to an audience of one with headphones, when realistically like ryan alluded to you can create outstanding choruses in the korg and lexi. now if i were an acoustic player the 1210 would be part of my live rig.
|
|
|
Post by mentoneman on Aug 30, 2016 4:41:16 GMT -5
|
|