Rig routing of MPX 1 into rack help wanted.

[zerofivefour]

Scott,

I just got off of the HRI site and read it is to be taken down eventually. I saw your suggestion to take up the mantle and joined your board. I have read threads with your expertise on HRI over the years and never realized you had your own board until now. With that said I was wondering if you could offer any suggestions for routing a Lexicon MPX-1 into my existing rack. I've attached a rig diagram below as well as pictures of my CAE dual stereo mixer. Italo and other folks at HRI have responded to my request for help, but I believe this may be exactly your exact area of expertise. I would greatly appreciate any assistance and routing help you may have. 

 My difficulty with routing the MPX 1 is that I have ran mono rigs, in series for nearly 25 years prior to building this rack a few years ago with the help of analogkid, italo, and others ar HRI. I have extremely limited experience with mixers and simply have not grasped the logic behind the routing at this point. Would your book detail mixer logic for the novice?  

My goal is to utilize the MPX 1 as delay and reverb and integrate it "somewhere" into my mixer for the desired results.


Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Tom

[scottkahn]

Hi Tom.
Yes, the book talks about using line mixers, building wet/dry/wet rigs, and more. It definitely makes clear how to use this stuff. If you order it from Amazon, be sure you're looking at the SECOND EDITION, as they also still list the first one.

But regardless, there's only one main use for a line mixer in your rig... sending the output from your effects processors into the line mixer and then into the loop return on your amp, bypassing the returns on your GCX. This makes it so that if you have delay repeats and reverb tails, when you change sounds and turn off a loop, it doesn't cut off the sound before it finishes up.

The CAE line mixer is basically two mixers in one box, so you can use each mixer for different parts of your rig, like one for front-of-amp effects and the other for your loop. Or, to split signals to multiple amps. Lots of options. Really, though, you only need to use one of the mixers... unless it was mono, in which case you use each mixer as the left and right halves of a stereo configuration. As line mixers go, yours is a complex one. You may be better served by something like the RJM Mini Line Mixer.

Scott

[zerofivefour]

Scott,

Thanks for the reply. I will be ordering the book this weekend or sooner. I'd very much like to get a firm grasp mixer logic. I've wanted to pick up your book for quite some time to be honest and this is an excellent motivator for me to do just that.

When I bought the CAE dual mixer my intent was to buy more mixer than I would ever need for future additions to the rack such as the MPX-1, and future units such as the eclipse/and H3000 etc... to avoid having to buy another one down the road. However its complexity coupled with my lack of experience with any mixer has stifled my ability to grasp the concept. Looking forward to your book very much.

I'm sure I'll benefit from reading it.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Tom

[scottkahn]

Tom,

If you read my review of the RJM Mini Line Mixer, it may help clear up the typical use of these devices. You'll find lots of line mixer info in the book, too.

musicplayers.com/reviews/guitars/2011/0611_RJMminiLineMixer.php

Scott

[zerofivefour]

Scott,


Thanks for directing me to the article. I'll read it asap.  The graphic with the guitar-switcher and mini-line-mix connections is ultra helpful to be honest.  Your book should arrive next week and I'm looking forward to reading it.  

I have been considering re-routing my rig lately and understanding mixer logic is paramount prior to attempting to do this.

I'm sure I'll have some questions as I delve into it.

Thanks again, your help is much appreciated.


Tom

[analogkid85]

Hey Tom! Sorry it took me so long to get over here

Here's what I think you should try for now with the MPX-1:

-- Mix 1 Out 3L ---> MPX-1 L input
-- Mix 1 Out 3R ---> MPX-1 R input (there's a second "3L" that should have been labeled "3R" in the drawing--it's just the bottom one, the 2nd half of the stereo pair)

then...

-- MPX-1 L output ---> Mix 2 In 4 L
-- MPX-1 R output ---> Mix 2 In 4 R (again, mislabeled--I need to fix that!)


For delay and reverb for now, this is the way to go--you'll still get the layered sound of the TERC+SPX passing through to the delays and verbs, and the MPX-1 will be in parallel to the Rocktrons, so you can bring the different delays and verbs in & out at will, and get perfect spillover between them.

The only "loose ends" to tie up here would probably be with how you'd like to mute the inputs to the MPX-1--there are definitely ways to do it inside the box, but if there aren't--or if it just ends up being too much programming (as it well could be, especially if it's on a patch-by-patch basis)--you can definitely use two more of those GCX loops for that purpose. I don't know if you still have any spares, but if you do, that's something I could help make another drawing for (as well as adding the MPX-1 to the drawing, of course).

I would HIGHLY suggest you keep this mixer--your rig is too complex for something like an RJM Mini Line mixer to handle (an otherwise great mixer, but not for doing these kinds of multi-layered FX). The RJM can't do two stages of mixing on its own, and it can't split all the signals you'd need on its own either. You'd have to get a whole separate box and even another mixer just to approach what you've got here already.

Hang onto your MPX-1! It's on my "list" of stuff to get to, among others (Boss SX700 and Yamaha Magicstomp are up there too--one of them, I'll definitely get to by year's end). I was very impressed by Italo's library for it, and it's really making me want to try it even more now.

[zerofivefour]

Ryan!

Thanks for chiming in. Can't thank you enough. Just happened to check my "old" email account that was set up to receive notifications from HRI years ago, and found the notification from HRI regarding your posting here.

I will have to digest your suggestions, put them into action, and report back with results. I greatly appreciate your time and effort in the routing.


CAE Mixer: 

Don't worry the CAE Mixer is going nowhere =).


MPX 1:

I have to say that I absolutely love the MPX 1 for its sonic fingerprint. The "impact" for lack of a better word, that it lays on the overall sound is Exactly what I have been missing for nailing certain sounds for many years. More on that later!  I could not be happier with the unit. 

Regarding rig drawings, yes more please! Your initial drawing was invaluable to me, and the rig continues to deliver excellent tones.

I would like to touch on more of your post, but I am a bit pressed for time at the moment unfortunately. 

More later.

Thanks again!
Cheers,

Tom

[thewizard]

Thing to remember is to set fx to 100% and the reverb and delay block in the MPX-1 in parallel.

[zerofivefour]

Aug 13, 2016 9:02:43 GMT -5 thewizard said:

Thing to remember is to set fx to 100% and the reverb and delay block in the MPX-1 in parallel.

Wizard!



Thanks for the suggestion, greatly appreciate it!


I'll check  the reverb and delay block today, hadn't checked that parameter to be honest.
 
Have to say the MPX-1 imparts a "chewyness" on the overall tone that I really enjoy. It is an essential ingredient to so many tones.

I've been using it for that last few months and it has really impressed me. It's inspiring to use and fills a void in my fx arsenal.



Cheers,



Tom

[thewizard]

If you let dry thru any of the fx units you will get phase problems

[zerofivefour]

Aug 15, 2016 3:09:59 GMT -5 thewizard said:

If you let dry thru any of the fx units you will get phase problems

Wizard,



Initially when I first fired up the unit after receiving it, I remember hearing this and thinking, wth??? MXR Phase-9000 rack unit lol.



However, as you mention, going 100 percent wet eliminates it. That was an interesting few hours to say the least. The interface is something I'm still not proficient in. Initially it was difficult as I did not have a manual. Italo was very helpful in helping me get this integrated.



Since then, this unit has sparked new tones into the rig. I love it dearly.



I honestly wish I would have picked up an MPX-1 years ago. These days they are extremely affordable.



Thanks again,



Cheers,



Tom

[zerofivefour]

Aug 1, 2016 13:31:57 GMT -5 analogkid85 said:

Hey Tom! Sorry it took me so long to get over here

Here's what I think you should try for now with the MPX-1:

-- Mix 1 Out 3L ---> MPX-1 L input
-- Mix 1 Out 3R ---> MPX-1 R input (there's a second "3L" that should have been labeled "3R" in the drawing--it's just the bottom one, the 2nd half of the stereo pair)

then...

-- MPX-1 L output ---> Mix 2 In 4 L
-- MPX-1 R output ---> Mix 2 In 4 R (again, mislabeled--I need to fix that!)


For delay and reverb for now, this is the way to go--you'll still get the layered sound of the TERC+SPX passing through to the delays and verbs, and the MPX-1 will be in parallel to the Rocktrons, so you can bring the different delays and verbs in & out at will, and get perfect spillover between them.

The only "loose ends" to tie up here would probably be with how you'd like to mute the inputs to the MPX-1--there are definitely ways to do it inside the box, but if there aren't--or if it just ends up being too much programming (as it well could be, especially if it's on a patch-by-patch basis)--you can definitely use two more of those GCX loops for that purpose. I don't know if you still have any spares, but if you do, that's something I could help make another drawing for (as well as adding the MPX-1 to the drawing, of course).

I would HIGHLY suggest you keep this mixer--your rig is too complex for something like an RJM Mini Line mixer to handle (an otherwise great mixer, but not for doing these kinds of multi-layered FX). The RJM can't do two stages of mixing on its own, and it can't split all the signals you'd need on its own either. You'd have to get a whole separate box and even another mixer just to approach what you've got here already.

Hang onto your MPX-1! It's on my "list" of stuff to get to, among others (Boss SX700 and Yamaha Magicstomp are up there too--one of them, I'll definitely get to by year's end). I was very impressed by Italo's library for it, and it's really making me want to try it even more now.

Ryan,

Went to wire up my rack per your invaluable advice, and what do you know, I had actually wired it up that way.  ( I took some advice from Italo and got lucky with my choice of mixer input/outputs it seems). It works great. I've been using it for a few months now and it really is a great piece of the puzzle.

Layers of delays when necessary, and by itself it is definitely sounds great as a splash of delay and verb here and there. When using it together with your Intellifex "Stereo delay" patch, combined with The mpx GS patch, and xpression's  Phase delay patch, and The TERC, SPX 90,  it's gorgeous. Clean, dirty, and solo tones all sound phenomenal.

1: Clean tones and edge of breakup: are amazing: I'm getting some absolutely wonderful tones. Some that come to mind: Spanky crystal clear cleans in the vein THE FIX, soupy delays ala Pink floyd, as well as other 80s inspired cleans, ie Def Lep hysteria,etc...  

2: Hot Lead tones, are perfect!: Using it alone on the GS patch, SPX pitch change C, and teh CAE channel 2 with bb preamp, and/or CAE channel 3 takes you into marshall/Soldano liquid lead tones galore, aka DeMartini etc...

Crunch/Dirt rhythms, Channel 2 CAE wih just the MPX-1 has a remarkable "chewy-ness" that I was never able to get out of the Intellifex/Xpression, pedal based Delays etc...This in itself makes the MPX 1 worth the price of admission for me.


Some questions/issues:

1: Having an issue getting my GC pro to change The MPX-1 User presets however. I may post another thread in order to get higher visibility to the problem.

2: Any suggestions on muting the MPX-1 with my gcx loops would be great. I've got 3 available loops, loops 6, 7, and 8. I kept those available for the CAE preamp channel switching, but decided against using them as I prefer to use the CAE proprietary footswitch, at least currently =)

3: Also wondering if you were able to make any decent patches from the Xpression, I really only use it for the phased delay patch, NEPTUNE, but it sure does add some nice ambiance with that patch.

Any assistance is always appreciated. The rig sounds great.


I should mention, I am currently running an Xotic BB preamp in GCX loop 3, (where the analog filter originally was in diagram), The Deja vibe is now in GCX Loop 2, with a Mini Tube Screamer in Loop 1, (where the phaser originally was in the diagram). That gives me Pre and Post OD options for the Vibe, (Trower/Hendrix), as well as stacked OD's for some interesting tones.

Thanks again.

Tom